Leon County & Prestate Rules
09/19/2020 11:31:40 PM
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It is your meet and be as cautious as you like to protect everyone...but I have questions... Question? If they have to have a test 72 hrs prior be negative does that prove they will be negative race day? Question? If everyone is getting tested and must be negative why the mask requirement? Question? If the mask requirement is in case someone tests negative but is really positive why test at all and not just have mask requirements? Question? Who will be expected to pay for all this testing given most high schools are struggling financially? Question? Is this the planned protocol for the State meet or State Series in general also? Question? If it is who pays for that? Question? Why only the state series and not all season, no set regulations all year but possibly now for what reason? Question? If someone has a fever does it mean they are Covid Positive? Question? If someone doesn't have a fever does it mean they are Covid Negative? Question? If there is money to spend on testing why use it on Healthy student athletes that are in schools daily isn't that a waste of money and tests? Question? Knowing the answer to most of these questions already why are you wasting time and money both yours and ours? Miles of Smiles Sincerely, Coach Ray
It is your meet and be as cautious as you like to protect everyone...but I have questions...

Question? If they have to have a test 72 hrs prior be negative does that prove they will be negative race day?

Question? If everyone is getting tested and must be negative why the mask requirement?

Question? If the mask requirement is in case someone tests negative but is really positive why test at all and not just have mask requirements?

Question? Who will be expected to pay for all this testing given most high schools are struggling financially?

Question? Is this the planned protocol for the State meet or State Series in general also?

Question? If it is who pays for that?

Question? Why only the state series and not all season, no set regulations all year but possibly now for what reason?

Question? If someone has a fever does it mean they are Covid Positive?

Question? If someone doesn't have a fever does it mean they are Covid Negative?

Question? If there is money to spend on testing why use it on Healthy student athletes that are in schools daily isn't that a waste of money and tests?

Question? Knowing the answer to most of these questions already why are you wasting time and money both yours and ours?

Miles of Smiles

Sincerely,

Coach Ray
09/20/2020 5:29:13 AM
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Why raise questions if you (1) don't intend to go or (2) intend to go and comply with the rules set forth. And lastly if you know all the answers, why haven't you come up with a cure/vaccine/ or whatever you think mitigate COVID 19 related deaths and contraction? The folks in Tallahassee that includes Amanda Heidecker and Bob Braman, are great ambassadors of the sport and work tirelessly to host a top notch event- moreso this year than any other. A venue like the ARP would never have been conceivable without these visionaries and running passionate minded persons. Their facility is the envy of all cross country venues in the state and the nation. And to think, they've shown that cross country is revenue generating sport. WoW! I feel they should be supported for all they have done and not denigrated for hosting the meet. And not going to the meet has financial consequences. Visit Tallahassee relies on heads and bed tax to fund their operations. They are working with the deck they were dealt so give them a break.
Why raise questions if you (1) don't intend to go or (2) intend to go and comply with the rules set forth.

And lastly if you know all the answers, why haven't you come up with a cure/vaccine/ or whatever you think mitigate COVID 19 related deaths and contraction?

The folks in Tallahassee that includes Amanda Heidecker and Bob Braman, are great ambassadors of the sport and work tirelessly to host a top notch event- moreso this year than any other. A venue like the ARP would never have been conceivable without these visionaries and running passionate minded persons. Their facility is the envy of all cross country venues in the state and the nation. And to think, they've shown that cross country is revenue generating sport. WoW!

I feel they should be supported for all they have done and not denigrated for hosting the meet.

And not going to the meet has financial consequences. Visit Tallahassee relies on heads and bed tax to fund their operations.

They are working with the deck they were dealt so give them a break.
09/20/2020 7:04:24 AM
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If this is the protocol for the meet, how will it not be for the state meet? FHSAA supersedes the county that owns the park?
If this is the protocol for the meet, how will it not be for the state meet? FHSAA supersedes the county that owns the park?
09/20/2020 7:07:07 AM
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@Ubiquitous1.flosports. Ricky, I think the world of Bob and FSU. They have built the best venue in the south. But no coach in their right mind will subject their healthy kids to testing when one false positive, of which the rate is over 3%, can shut down our program for two weeks.
@Ubiquitous1.flosports. Ricky, I think the world of Bob and FSU. They have built the best venue in the south. But no coach in their right mind will subject their healthy kids to testing when one false positive, of which the rate is over 3%, can shut down our program for two weeks.
09/20/2020 7:28:02 AM
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[quote=Ubiquitous1.flosports]Why raise questions if you (1) don't intend to go or (2) intend to go and comply with the rules set forth.[/quote] Because it is the venue for the State Meet and is called the Prestate meet potentially implying how the State Meet will be handled [quote=Ubiquitous1.flosports]And lastly if you know all the answers, why haven't you come up with a cure/vaccine/ or whatever you think mitigate COVID 19 related deaths and contraction?[/quote] Not one question had to do with deaths or a vaccine but typical shy away from a response with a non sequitur. They are serious questions that most reasonable people could answer and would notice answers contradict one another [quote=Ubiquitous1.flosports]The folks in Tallahassee that includes Amanda Heidecker and Bob Braman, are great ambassadors of the sport and work tirelessly to host a top notch event- moreso this year than any other. A venue like the ARP would never have been conceivable without these visionaries and running passionate minded persons. Their facility is the envy of all cross country venues in the state and the nation. And to think, they've shown that cross country is revenue generating sport. WoW![/quote] [quote=Ubiquitous1.flosports]I feel they should be supported for all they have done and not denigrated for hosting the meet.[/quote] Not sure where I denigrated anyone by asking relevant and pertinent questions that should be asked. Also yes it is one of the greatest venues in the country run by top notch people, I do not recall saying it wasn't. [quote=Ubiquitous1.flosports]And not going to the meet has financial consequences. Visit Tallahassee relies on heads and bed tax to fund their operations.[/quote] So you are saying money is the answer and reason they should host the meet...now who is denigrating the hosts. By the way I do not agree money is the reason, since it will likely cost a fortune to test all of the student athletes.. more so per test than any heads and bed tax would cover, unless they use PPE money that has been sitting around...but to test healthy students that go to school daily (implying they are already negative) using PPE money to me would be an egregious use of funds that should be spent giving tests to those who need and possibly could not afford one.
Ubiquitous1.flosports wrote:
Why raise questions if you (1) don't intend to go or (2) intend to go and comply with the rules set forth.

Because it is the venue for the State Meet and is called the Prestate meet potentially implying how the State Meet will be handled

Ubiquitous1.flosports wrote:
And lastly if you know all the answers, why haven't you come up with a cure/vaccine/ or whatever you think mitigate COVID 19 related deaths and contraction?

Not one question had to do with deaths or a vaccine but typical shy away from a response with a non sequitur. They are serious questions that most reasonable people could answer and would notice answers contradict one another

Ubiquitous1.flosports wrote:
The folks in Tallahassee that includes Amanda Heidecker and Bob Braman, are great ambassadors of the sport and work tirelessly to host a top notch event- moreso this year than any other. A venue like the ARP would never have been conceivable without these visionaries and running passionate minded persons. Their facility is the envy of all cross country venues in the state and the nation. And to think, they've shown that cross country is revenue generating sport. WoW!


Ubiquitous1.flosports wrote:
I feel they should be supported for all they have done and not denigrated for hosting the meet.

Not sure where I denigrated anyone by asking relevant and pertinent questions that should be asked. Also yes it is one of the greatest venues in the country run by top notch people, I do not recall saying it wasn't.

Ubiquitous1.flosports wrote:
And not going to the meet has financial consequences. Visit Tallahassee relies on heads and bed tax to fund their operations.

So you are saying money is the answer and reason they should host the meet...now who is denigrating the hosts.

By the way I do not agree money is the reason, since it will likely cost a fortune to test all of the student athletes.. more so per test than any heads and bed tax would cover, unless they use PPE money that has been sitting around...but to test healthy students that go to school daily (implying they are already negative) using PPE money to me would be an egregious use of funds that should be spent giving tests to those who need and possibly could not afford one.
09/20/2020 7:48:33 AM
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@John_Stevenson My thoughts exactly... The county parks have been shut down but are now but are allowing this one event, So for FHSSA to be allowed to use the park why would we assume the rules would adjust for that event...FHSAA does not own the park or run Leon County
@John_Stevenson
My thoughts exactly...
The county parks have been shut down but are now but are allowing this one event,

So for FHSSA to be allowed to use the park why would we assume the rules would adjust for that event...FHSAA does not own the park or run Leon County
09/20/2020 7:50:59 AM
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@coachbutler Not to mention a Coach/teacher would have to miss work for 14 days (contact tracing protocols) the student athletes would be sent home for 14 days (contact tracing) The students who sit next to the student athletes in class could be sent home due to contact tracing And so on and so forth...
@coachbutler
Not to mention a
Coach/teacher would have to miss work for 14 days (contact tracing protocols)
the student athletes would be sent home for 14 days (contact tracing)
The students who sit next to the student athletes in class could be sent home due to contact tracing
And so on and so forth...
09/20/2020 8:07:11 AM
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@raycer131 yep!
@raycer131 yep!
09/20/2020 2:13:49 PM
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[quote=raycer131]It is your meet and be as cautious as you like to protect everyone...but I have questions... Question? If they have to have a test 72 hrs prior be negative does that prove they will be negative race day? [b]No[/b] Question? If everyone is getting tested and must be negative why the mask requirement? [b]They could test 72 hours before competition, but contract the virus 24 hours before competition. The mask is a secondary precaution.[/b] Question? If the mask requirement is in case someone tests negative but is really positive why test at all and not just have mask requirements? [b]There is the possibility of a person getting tested has the virus and did not know it, and the test comes up positive. Now that person knows and can take the appropriate appropriate steps in getting health related help and quarantine. Sure there might be several who test negative that are actually positive...but if one is found, then it is all worth it.[/b] Question? Who will be expected to pay for all this testing given most high schools are struggling financially? [b]I don't have an answer to that, but spending a few extra dollars in the name of safety instead of purchasing a souvenir seems worth it to me. [/b] Question? Is this the planned protocol for the State meet or State Series in general also? [b]I would guess the FHSAA will work with the City of Tallahassee in developing or following a given protocol. I'm sure the effectiveness oo lack of effectiveness of this protocol will yield changes / improvements for the State meet[/b] Question? If it is who pays for that? [b]I don't have an answer for that, but I would not be surprised if FHSAA charged a small fee to all State meet participants to pay for or help off-set testing costs.[/b] Question? Why only the state series and not all season, no set regulations all year but possibly now for what reason? [b]The State series is the only tournament governed by the FHSAA during the season. The FHSAA does not govern preseason and in-season meets. Those meets are run by host schools / meet directors / county school boards and it is up to them to come up with their own safety protocols. [/b] Question? If someone has a fever does it mean they are Covid Positive? [b]No[/b] Question? If someone doesn't have a fever does it mean they are Covid Negative? [b]No[/b] Question? If there is money to spend on testing why use it on Healthy student athletes that are in schools daily isn't that a waste of money and tests? [b]We don't know they are healthy until the results of the test reveal it. Just because they are asymptomatic does not mean they are "healthy." You could still run 15:20 / 17:30 5K and have COVID.....making you "unhealthy", but fit.[/b] Question? Knowing the answer to most of these questions already why are you wasting time and money both yours and ours? [b]Safety[/b] Miles of Smiles Sincerely, Coach Ray [/quote] While all this might be a pain in the butt, jumping through whatever hoops at whatever costs for the opportunity to allow these kids and coaches to partake in the sport they are passionate about in order to have a season is far better than not having a season.
raycer131 wrote:
It is your meet and be as cautious as you like to protect everyone...but I have questions...

Question? If they have to have a test 72 hrs prior be negative does that prove they will be negative race day?

No

Question? If everyone is getting tested and must be negative why the mask requirement?

They could test 72 hours before competition, but contract the virus 24 hours before competition. The mask is a secondary precaution.

Question? If the mask requirement is in case someone tests negative but is really positive why test at all and not just have mask requirements?

There is the possibility of a person getting tested has the virus and did not know it, and the test comes up positive. Now that person knows and can take the appropriate appropriate steps in getting health related help and quarantine. Sure there might be several who test negative that are actually positive...but if one is found, then it is all worth it.

Question? Who will be expected to pay for all this testing given most high schools are struggling financially?

I don't have an answer to that, but spending a few extra dollars in the name of safety instead of purchasing a souvenir seems worth it to me.

Question? Is this the planned protocol for the State meet or State Series in general also?

I would guess the FHSAA will work with the City of Tallahassee in developing or following a given protocol. I'm sure the effectiveness oo lack of effectiveness of this protocol will yield changes / improvements for the State meet

Question? If it is who pays for that?

I don't have an answer for that, but I would not be surprised if FHSAA charged a small fee to all State meet participants to pay for or help off-set testing costs.

Question? Why only the state series and not all season, no set regulations all year but possibly now for what reason?

The State series is the only tournament governed by the FHSAA during the season. The FHSAA does not govern preseason and in-season meets. Those meets are run by host schools / meet directors / county school boards and it is up to them to come up with their own safety protocols.

Question? If someone has a fever does it mean they are Covid Positive?

No

Question? If someone doesn't have a fever does it mean they are Covid Negative?

No

Question? If there is money to spend on testing why use it on Healthy student athletes that are in schools daily isn't that a waste of money and tests?

We don't know they are healthy until the results of the test reveal it. Just because they are asymptomatic does not mean they are "healthy." You could still run 15:20 / 17:30 5K and have COVID.....making you "unhealthy", but fit.

Question? Knowing the answer to most of these questions already why are you wasting time and money both yours and ours?

Safety

Miles of Smiles

Sincerely,

Coach Ray


While all this might be a pain in the butt, jumping through whatever hoops at whatever costs for the opportunity to allow these kids and coaches to partake in the sport they are passionate about in order to have a season is far better than not having a season.
09/20/2020 2:51:35 PM
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As a meet host you do whatever you feel is nessary to provide a safe enviroment, you dont want a ton of people to get sick on your watch. At some point however it is just not practical to host a meet. Prestate is different from state. It is an optional meet. Inunderstand the test idea since teenager generally dont have symptoms but still carry and pass covid. Without free on site rapid testing at state, this is not feasable. My wife was involved in a federally funded science program over the summer that ended up being canceled due to testing taking over 3 weeks to come back. If you dont like the protocals dont go. It sucks to miss a great meet snd top competition, but be glad we even have it as an option We do however, instead of speculating, need real answers frombthe fhsaa on state and the entire state series. Without garented testing kids will will out on states
As a meet host you do whatever you feel is nessary to provide a safe enviroment, you dont want a ton of people to get sick on your watch. At some point however it is just not practical to host a meet.

Prestate is different from state. It is an optional meet. Inunderstand the test idea since teenager generally dont have symptoms but still carry and pass covid. Without free on site rapid testing at state, this is not feasable. My wife was involved in a federally funded science program over the summer that ended up being canceled due to testing taking over 3 weeks to come back.

If you dont like the protocals dont go. It sucks to miss a great meet snd top competition, but be glad we even have it as an option

We do however, instead of speculating, need real answers frombthe fhsaa on state and the entire state series. Without garented testing kids will will out on states
09/20/2020 4:35:39 PM
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[quote=multijumps] Question? If the mask requirement is in case someone tests negative but is really positive why test at all and not just have mask requirements? [i]There is the possibility of a person getting tested has the virus and did not know it, and the test comes up positive. Now that person knows and can take the appropriate appropriate steps in getting health related help and quarantine. Sure there might be several who test negative that are actually positive...but if one is found, then it is all worth it.[/i] [b]With the cost being between $75 and $125 a test I would disagree. Not to mention if someone does have it and the mask "as a secondary precaution prevents it" why test at all if the mask works?[/b] Question? Who will be expected to pay for all this testing given most high schools are struggling financially? [i]I don't have an answer to that, but spending a few extra dollars in the name of safety instead of purchasing a souvenir seems worth it to me.[/i] [b]Not sure what souvenir you are purchasing but many teams can barely afford shoes and have to raise money just to enter a meet. I understand we don't have to go to this one, but if it is a State Series requirement that will be problematic for many.[/b] Question? Is this the planned protocol for the State meet or State Series in general also? [i]I would guess the FHSAA will work with the City of Tallahassee in developing or following a given protocol. I'm sure the effectiveness oo lack of effectiveness of this protocol will yield changes / improvements for the State meet [/i] [b]Agree that is probably what will happen[/b] Question? If it is who pays for that? [i]I don't have an answer for that, but I would not be surprised if FHSAA charged a small fee to all State meet participants to pay for or help off-set testing costs.[/i] [b]Agree that is probably what will happen, but should it and why only at the state level[/b] Question? Why only the state series and not all season, no set regulations all year but possibly now for what reason? [i]The State series is the only tournament governed by the FHSAA during the season. The FHSAA does not govern preseason and in-season meets. Those meets are run by host schools / meet directors / county school boards and it is up to them to come up with their own safety protocols.[/i] [b]To an extent this is true. Though everyone must follow FHSAA guidelines, no clubs mixed in, only eligible athletes, or you lose the ability to compete in the State Series and face financially penalties for breaking their rules at "meets they don't apparently govern." Also if they Govern the entire State Series, that means every Cross Country Student athlete will have to be tested for Districts, Regional ( for a smaller number ) and again at the State Meet. So now each school is going to be expected to pay for 3 weeks of testing per athlete? My point is if not at each meet along the road of the State Series why at the State Meet? if it safety is the concern why not hav[/b] Question? If someone has a fever does it mean they are Covid Positive? [i]No[/i] [b]*****THEN WHY TAKE TEMPERATURES****[/b] Question? If someone doesn't have a fever does it mean they are Covid Negative? [i]No[/i] [b]*****THEN WHY TAKE TEMPERATURES****[/b] Question? If there is money to spend on testing why use it on Healthy student athletes that are in schools daily isn't that a waste of money and tests? [i]We don't know they are healthy until the results of the test reveal it. Just because they are asymptomatic does not mean they are "healthy." You could still run 15:20 / 17:30 5K and have COVID.....making you "unhealthy", but fit.[/i] [b]Actually that is the definition of Healthy, until symptoms present you are Healthy and far less likely to transmit (if you are asymptomatic and positive) according to every study done by the CDC and WHO. If they are allowed to attend school daily why the need to make the meet stricter in an outdoor space)[/b] Question? Knowing the answer to most of these questions already why are you wasting time and money both yours and ours? [i]Safety[/i] [b]If you think this makes us any safer than a basic mask precaution... I ask if you are having your team tested regularly as well as teams you compete against weekly tested, if not, then again why should we do it this time around. ( not meaning Pre-state as they can make their rules, but the eventuality of the State Series ) If someone is sitting on some PPE money in tallahassee and decide to use it to get "beds and heads tax" as well as snipe the testing money out of the PPE for student athletes not in Tallahassee, then that is an egregious use of how the funds were most likely intended to be spent ( which is most likely on testing sick people that can't afford it )[/b] Miles of Smiles Sincerely, Coach Ray [/quote] [i]While all this might be a pain in the butt, jumping through whatever hoops at whatever costs for the opportunity to allow these kids and coaches to partake in the sport they are passionate about in order to have a season is far better than not having a season.[/i] [b]What about the cost to the people that actually need to be tested? FHSAA gave us a season with no rules at all, none not one rule was made regarding Covid other that the adjustment of the Start date...from my perspective things are getting better "currently" so why tighten up even more when FHSAA created a season with no mandates.[/b]
multijumps wrote:


Question? If the mask requirement is in case someone tests negative but is really positive why test at all and not just have mask requirements?

There is the possibility of a person getting tested has the virus and did not know it, and the test comes up positive. Now that person knows and can take the appropriate appropriate steps in getting health related help and quarantine. Sure there might be several who test negative that are actually positive...but if one is found, then it is all worth it.

With the cost being between $75 and $125 a test I would disagree. Not to mention if someone does have it and the mask "as a secondary precaution prevents it" why test at all if the mask works?

Question? Who will be expected to pay for all this testing given most high schools are struggling financially?

I don't have an answer to that, but spending a few extra dollars in the name of safety instead of purchasing a souvenir seems worth it to me.

Not sure what souvenir you are purchasing but many teams can barely afford shoes and have to raise money just to enter a meet. I understand we don't have to go to this one, but if it is a State Series requirement that will be problematic for many.

Question? Is this the planned protocol for the State meet or State Series in general also?

I would guess the FHSAA will work with the City of Tallahassee in developing or following a given protocol. I'm sure the effectiveness oo lack of effectiveness of this protocol will yield changes / improvements for the State meet

Agree that is probably what will happen

Question? If it is who pays for that?

I don't have an answer for that, but I would not be surprised if FHSAA charged a small fee to all State meet participants to pay for or help off-set testing costs.

Agree that is probably what will happen, but should it and why only at the state level

Question? Why only the state series and not all season, no set regulations all year but possibly now for what reason?

The State series is the only tournament governed by the FHSAA during the season. The FHSAA does not govern preseason and in-season meets. Those meets are run by host schools / meet directors / county school boards and it is up to them to come up with their own safety protocols.

To an extent this is true. Though everyone must follow FHSAA guidelines, no clubs mixed in, only eligible athletes, or you lose the ability to compete in the State Series and face financially penalties for breaking their rules at "meets they don't apparently govern."
Also if they Govern the entire State Series, that means every Cross Country Student athlete will have to be tested for Districts, Regional ( for a smaller number ) and again at the State Meet. So now each school is going to be expected to pay for 3 weeks of testing per athlete? My point is if not at each meet along the road of the State Series why at the State Meet? if it safety is the concern why not hav


Question? If someone has a fever does it mean they are Covid Positive?

No
*****THEN WHY TAKE TEMPERATURES****

Question? If someone doesn't have a fever does it mean they are Covid Negative?

No
*****THEN WHY TAKE TEMPERATURES****

Question? If there is money to spend on testing why use it on Healthy student athletes that are in schools daily isn't that a waste of money and tests?

We don't know they are healthy until the results of the test reveal it. Just because they are asymptomatic does not mean they are "healthy." You could still run 15:20 / 17:30 5K and have COVID.....making you "unhealthy", but fit.

Actually that is the definition of Healthy, until symptoms present you are Healthy and far less likely to transmit (if you are asymptomatic and positive) according to every study done by the CDC and WHO. If they are allowed to attend school daily why the need to make the meet stricter in an outdoor space)

Question? Knowing the answer to most of these questions already why are you wasting time and money both yours and ours?

Safety

If you think this makes us any safer than a basic mask precaution... I ask if you are having your team tested regularly as well as teams you compete against weekly tested, if not, then again why should we do it this time around.
( not meaning Pre-state as they can make their rules, but the eventuality of the State Series )

If someone is sitting on some PPE money in tallahassee and decide to use it to get "beds and heads tax" as well as snipe the testing money out of the PPE for student athletes not in Tallahassee, then that is an egregious use of how the funds were most likely intended to be spent ( which is most likely on testing sick people that can't afford it )


Miles of Smiles

Sincerely,

Coach Ray


While all this might be a pain in the butt, jumping through whatever hoops at whatever costs for the opportunity to allow these kids and coaches to partake in the sport they are passionate about in order to have a season is far better than not having a season.

What about the cost to the people that actually need to be tested? FHSAA gave us a season with no rules at all, none not one rule was made regarding Covid other that the adjustment of the Start date...from my perspective things are getting better "currently" so why tighten up even more when FHSAA created a season with no mandates.
09/20/2020 4:43:12 PM
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@Longhorn 100% agree with you as I stated Pre-State can do what they like and that I have zero issue with, my only issue is that it is called "Pre-State" and lends to the concept it will be the same guidelines for the State Championships which we have no guidance on. FHSAA gave our sport a season with no adjustments to our protocols and said "go be free" but when their ass may be on the line they are like hey we care about your safety now so come on home to mama's house babybird and follow rules you didn't have for the last 9 weeks but you better be healthy for these 3 weeks or else not only is your team out of the series, but the entire team and coaching staff have to miss schools for 14 days (having a positive test, and so will many people that were not tested or tested negative even, due to contact tracing rules).
@Longhorn

100% agree with you
as I stated Pre-State can do what they like and that I have zero issue with, my only issue is that it is called "Pre-State" and lends to the concept it will be the same guidelines for the State Championships which we have no guidance on. FHSAA gave our sport a season with no adjustments to our protocols and said "go be free" but when their ass may be on the line they are like hey we care about your safety now so come on home to mama's house babybird and follow rules you didn't have for the last 9 weeks but you better be healthy for these 3 weeks or else not only is your team out of the series, but the entire team and coaching staff have to miss schools for 14 days (having a positive test, and so will many people that were not tested or tested negative even, due to contact tracing rules).
09/20/2020 4:45:33 PM
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The cost of testing around here is over $300 each. Insurance doesn't cover it if they don't have symptoms for most, what they tell me. So as for it being a few dollars for safety, not so unless you're paid better than a Florida teacher.
The cost of testing around here is over $300 each. Insurance doesn't cover it if they don't have symptoms for most, what they tell me. So as for it being a few dollars for safety, not so unless you're paid better than a Florida teacher.
09/20/2020 9:07:44 PM
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Without getting into specifics or politics, I'll just say in my opinion the rules put in place by Leon County seem draconian by comparison to other venues. This may be premature, but how difficult would it be for the FSHAA to move the State Finals to another location?
Without getting into specifics or politics, I'll just say in my opinion the rules put in place by Leon County seem draconian by comparison to other venues. This may be premature, but how difficult would it be for the FSHAA to move the State Finals to another location?
09/20/2020 10:00:50 PM
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@PreservedSwine It would be easy. Holloway Park in Lakeland would be my first pick. (Flrunners race location)
@PreservedSwine
It would be easy.
Holloway Park in Lakeland would be my first pick. (Flrunners race location)
09/21/2020 8:40:58 AM
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I'm not coaching XC this season as I transition into coaching soccer, so I don't have a dog in the fight. But I often think about the quote Washington Nationals pitcher Sean Doolittle gave prior to the start of the MLB season "Sports are the reward of a functioning society" In a functioning society we would have affordable testing that would allow Leon County to realistically carry out the testing requirement. The only reason college and pro sports have a prayer is because of testing. The testing is meant to be a stop gap, but as other have pointed out it's not foolproof. Here is Hillsborough County a football player tested positive, knew he had a positive test, and still opted to play in his game that week. Now his team and the team they played against have to be in quarantine. So the mask requirement is meant to supplement that because once the starting gun goes off, so do the masks (unless I missed a bullet point and they have to run with masks on). The start of a XC race pretty much goes against every protocol the CDC has in place. I know we're trying to keep things as normal as possible for our athletes, but at least in concept (maybe not in execution) the pre-state requirements are necessary.
I'm not coaching XC this season as I transition into coaching soccer, so I don't have a dog in the fight. But I often think about the quote Washington Nationals pitcher Sean Doolittle gave prior to the start of the MLB season

"Sports are the reward of a functioning society"

In a functioning society we would have affordable testing that would allow Leon County to realistically carry out the testing requirement. The only reason college and pro sports have a prayer is because of testing.

The testing is meant to be a stop gap, but as other have pointed out it's not foolproof. Here is Hillsborough County a football player tested positive, knew he had a positive test, and still opted to play in his game that week. Now his team and the team they played against have to be in quarantine.

So the mask requirement is meant to supplement that because once the starting gun goes off, so do the masks (unless I missed a bullet point and they have to run with masks on). The start of a XC race pretty much goes against every protocol the CDC has in place.

I know we're trying to keep things as normal as possible for our athletes, but at least in concept (maybe not in execution) the pre-state requirements are necessary.
09/21/2020 10:20:44 AM
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@Scisorkick I understand the effort to make the meet as safe as possible- it is usually a very large meet. Whether or not testing presumably asymptomatic and non- exposed kids is necessary or effective is up for debate, given the logistical difficulties involved. The CDC and others have stated multiple times that outdoor spaces are much safer, and that the greatest risk of infection comes from being in close contact with an infected person for more than 15 minutes indoors. You mentioned risk associated with start lines, but it's possible to keep kids reasonably apart at the line until right before the race. Since Aug. 15, there have been several large meets, as well as numerous small ones in Florida. I don't know whether any outbreaks have resulted from these meets, but I have heard of no evidence, or even rumors, that they have. Cases and positivity rate continue to decrease in Florida in most areas. Yes, here in Leon County there has been an increase in positive tests, but it is largely attributed to the return of college students. FSU and Leon County can use whatever procedures they deem necessary for PreState- but I suspect that greatly reducing the number of teams attending is the biggest factor in the decisions they have made. The FHSAA has already made the State meet much smaller by reducing the number of teams and separating classifications. Hopefully, they will consider positivity trends as kids continue to attend school and compete in meets all over the state.
@Scisorkick
I understand the effort to make the meet as safe as possible- it is usually a very large meet. Whether or not testing presumably asymptomatic and non- exposed kids is necessary or effective is up for debate, given the logistical difficulties involved. The CDC and others have stated multiple times that outdoor spaces are much safer, and that the greatest risk of infection comes from being in close contact with an infected person for more than 15 minutes indoors. You mentioned risk associated with start lines, but it's possible to keep kids reasonably apart at the line until right before the race. Since Aug. 15, there have been several large meets, as well as numerous small ones in Florida. I don't know whether any outbreaks have resulted from these meets, but I have heard of no evidence, or even rumors, that they have. Cases and positivity rate continue to decrease in Florida in most areas. Yes, here in Leon County there has been an increase in positive tests, but it is largely attributed to the return of college students. FSU and Leon County can use whatever procedures they deem necessary for PreState- but I suspect that greatly reducing the number of teams attending is the biggest factor in the decisions they have made. The FHSAA has already made the State meet much smaller by reducing the number of teams and separating classifications. Hopefully, they will consider positivity trends as kids continue to attend school and compete in meets all over the state.
09/21/2020 11:04:42 AM
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@francee And I would agree that numbers for the most part have trended in the right direction and that if mask procedures are being followed the chances of a full on out break are low. If you think of your normal run of the mill XC meet, let's pretend that an athlete did show up to line with Covid. After the initial huge pack at the start of the race, the pack thins out and that particular athlete isn't going be around too many other runners for an extended period of time. But I think the concern a meet like pre-state might have is now you are bringing in teams that are close in ability level. Now your packs are going to stay together longer in race. CDC states you need to be around someone for 15 minutes to be at risk, but I don't think that includes being around a group of people all breathing heavily. And I want to emphasize that: 1. I realize that teenagers are at very low risk of dying from Covid or having serious short term health risks (though the long term effects are still unkown) 2. Athletes are at bigger risk just by being at school than they would be in a race (at least at my current school students have been pretty good about the masks, though the realities of the lunchroom and lunch time undercut some of that)
@francee

And I would agree that numbers for the most part have trended in the right direction and that if mask procedures are being followed the chances of a full on out break are low.

If you think of your normal run of the mill XC meet, let's pretend that an athlete did show up to line with Covid. After the initial huge pack at the start of the race, the pack thins out and that particular athlete isn't going be around too many other runners for an extended period of time.

But I think the concern a meet like pre-state might have is now you are bringing in teams that are close in ability level. Now your packs are going to stay together longer in race.

CDC states you need to be around someone for 15 minutes to be at risk, but I don't think that includes being around a group of people all breathing heavily.

And I want to emphasize that:
1. I realize that teenagers are at very low risk of dying from Covid or having serious short term health risks (though the long term effects are still unkown)

2. Athletes are at bigger risk just by being at school than they would be in a race (at least at my current school students have been pretty good about the masks, though the realities of the lunchroom and lunch time undercut some of that)
09/22/2020 1:33:24 PM
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[quote=raycer131][quote=multijumps] Question? If the mask requirement is in case someone tests negative but is really positive why test at all and not just have mask requirements? [i]There is the possibility of a person getting tested has the virus and did not know it, and the test comes up positive. Now that person knows and can take the appropriate appropriate steps in getting health related help and quarantine. Sure there might be several who test negative that are actually positive...but if one is found, then it is all worth it.[/i] [b]With the cost being between $75 and $125 a test I would disagree. Not to mention if someone does have it and the mask "as a secondary precaution prevents it" why test at all if the mask works?[/b] Question? Who will be expected to pay for all this testing given most high schools are struggling financially? [i]I don't have an answer to that, but spending a few extra dollars in the name of safety instead of purchasing a souvenir seems worth it to me.[/i] [b]Not sure what souvenir you are purchasing but many teams can barely afford shoes and have to raise money just to enter a meet. I understand we don't have to go to this one, but if it is a State Series requirement that will be problematic for many.[/b] [i][b]I was thinking t-shirts, jackets, other apparel [/b][/i] Question? Is this the planned protocol for the State meet or State Series in general also? [i]I would guess the FHSAA will work with the City of Tallahassee in developing or following a given protocol. I'm sure the effectiveness oo lack of effectiveness of this protocol will yield changes / improvements for the State meet [/i] [b]Agree that is probably what will happen[/b] Question? If it is who pays for that? [i]I don't have an answer for that, but I would not be surprised if FHSAA charged a small fee to all State meet participants to pay for or help off-set testing costs.[/i] [b]Agree that is probably what will happen, but should it and why only at the state level[/b] Question? Why only the state series and not all season, no set regulations all year but possibly now for what reason? [i]The State series is the only tournament governed by the FHSAA during the season. The FHSAA does not govern preseason and in-season meets. Those meets are run by host schools / meet directors / county school boards and it is up to them to come up with their own safety protocols.[/i] [b]To an extent this is true. Though everyone must follow FHSAA guidelines, no clubs mixed in, only eligible athletes, or you lose the ability to compete in the State Series and face financially penalties for breaking their rules at "meets they don't apparently govern." Also if they Govern the entire State Series, that means every Cross Country Student athlete will have to be tested for Districts, Regional ( for a smaller number ) and again at the State Meet. So now each school is going to be expected to pay for 3 weeks of testing per athlete? My point is if not at each meet along the road of the State Series why at the State Meet? if it safety is the concern why not hav[/b] [i][b]I probably should have used the word "Manage" or "Host" instead of "govern." The state meet is the only meet the FHSAA hosts. [/b][/i] Question? If someone has a fever does it mean they are Covid Positive? [i]No[/i] [b]*****THEN WHY TAKE TEMPERATURES****[/b] [i][b]Because a high temperature (absent of anything relating to vigorous activity) is indicative of the body fighting a virus/infection and since we are in the mist of a COVID 19 pandemic, it is smart to have the person learn of their high temperature and have a medical expert distinguish between whether it is nothing, the onset of a flu, or COVID 19. Why? because 2 out of 3 of those can kill you or someone you know if transmitted.[/b][/i] Question? If someone doesn't have a fever does it mean they are Covid Negative? [i]No[/i] [b]*****THEN WHY TAKE TEMPERATURES****[/b] [i][b]Maybe the person's temperature is slowly rising and by the time you check it, it finally hits 100.4 degrees F. Also, If I am told to check temperatures of everyone who shows up, then that is what I'm going to do. Temperature or not. symptoms or not. Everyone gets checked. I would guess that the majority of people will not have a temperature, but I might find one that does have a temperature. Temperatures are taken to catch the very few that have them. Why does the TSA check everyone before they board a plane? I'm not carrying any weapons or contraband. Neither are the majority of passengers. But for some reason, EVERYONE must comply.[/b][/i] Question? If there is money to spend on testing why use it on Healthy student athletes that are in schools daily isn't that a waste of money and tests? [i]We don't know they are healthy until the results of the test reveal it. Just because they are asymptomatic does not mean they are "healthy." You could still run 15:20 / 17:30 5K and have COVID.....making you "unhealthy", but fit.[/i] [b]Actually that is the definition of Healthy, until symptoms present you are Healthy and far less likely to transmit (if you are asymptomatic and positive) according to every study done by the CDC and WHO. If they are allowed to attend school daily why the need to make the meet stricter in an outdoor space)[/b] [i][b]I disagree. You can't be considered healthy if you are in a disease-state. Type 2 diabetes, osteoporosis, and hypertension are all asymptomatic diseases. A person with any of these is considered unhealthy. By definition, you are unhealthy if you have a virus or disease. According to the following article, you are wrong about people being less likely to transmit if you are asymptomatic and positive. In an article titled "‘We don’t actually have that answer yet’: WHO clarifies comments on asymptomatic spread of Covid-19" Published on June 9, 2020, the author Andrew Joseph cited: “The WHO created confusion yesterday when it reported that asymptomatic patients rarely spread the disease,” an email from the Harvard Global Health Institute said Tuesday. “All of the best evidence suggests that people without symptoms can and do readily spread SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19. In fact, some evidence suggests that people may be most infectious in the days before they become symptomatic — that is, in the presymptomatic phase when they feel well, have no symptoms, but may be shedding substantial amounts of virus."[/b][/i] Question? Knowing the answer to most of these questions already why are you wasting time and money both yours and ours? [i]Safety[/i] [b]If you think this makes us any safer than a basic mask precaution... I ask if you are having your team tested regularly as well as teams you compete against weekly tested, if not, then again why should we do it this time around. ( not meaning Pre-state as they can make their rules, but the eventuality of the State Series ) [i][b]I am no longer coaching, so I do not have a team to COVID test regularly. If I were coaching, I do not think I would be testing the athletes regularly unless the means were provided for by my school. Why should you do it this time around? As you know, you don't have to compete. So, you don't have to do it. But, if you want to compete, then you have to comply with whatever the meet management requires. It sounds cold and harsh, but that's the hand we are dealt. Play it the best you can.[/b][/i] If someone is sitting on some PPE money in tallahassee and decide to use it to get "beds and heads tax" as well as snipe the testing money out of the PPE for student athletes not in Tallahassee, then that is an egregious use of how the funds were most likely intended to be spent ( which is most likely on testing sick people that can't afford it )[/b] [i][b]I agree, but that would be speculation and I highly doubt that would be the case.[/b][/i] Miles of Smiles Sincerely, Coach Ray [/quote] [i]While all this might be a pain in the butt, jumping through whatever hoops at whatever costs for the opportunity to allow these kids and coaches to partake in the sport they are passionate about in order to have a season is far better than not having a season.[/i] [b]What about the cost to the people that actually need to be tested? FHSAA gave us a season with no rules at all, none not one rule was made regarding Covid other that the adjustment of the Start date...from my perspective things are getting better "currently" so why tighten up even more when FHSAA created a season with no mandates.[/b][/quote] [i][b]There are several testing sites that are performing tests for free for the public. Home Depot on Capital Circle in Leon County is one of those sites. I would venture to guess there are many counties that also have free testing. I am sure there are some that do not. Bottom line, they can be found. FHSAA provided no safety guidelines regarding COVID...I would think this happened because there is no authority on the matter greater than the NIH or CDC and every county/school board has rule of how to enforce the CDC recommendations. i.e., what would FHSAA add that is not already covered? Also, too much variance between each county/school for FHSAA to provide blanket COVID rules that work for everyone. FHSAA is probably tightening up because they are responsible for managing the State meet. It's the possibility of the L-word" Litigation. They want to cross all their "t's" and dot all their "i's"[/b][/i]
raycer131 wrote:
multijumps wrote:


Question? If the mask requirement is in case someone tests negative but is really positive why test at all and not just have mask requirements?

There is the possibility of a person getting tested has the virus and did not know it, and the test comes up positive. Now that person knows and can take the appropriate appropriate steps in getting health related help and quarantine. Sure there might be several who test negative that are actually positive...but if one is found, then it is all worth it.

With the cost being between $75 and $125 a test I would disagree. Not to mention if someone does have it and the mask "as a secondary precaution prevents it" why test at all if the mask works?

Question? Who will be expected to pay for all this testing given most high schools are struggling financially?

I don't have an answer to that, but spending a few extra dollars in the name of safety instead of purchasing a souvenir seems worth it to me.

Not sure what souvenir you are purchasing but many teams can barely afford shoes and have to raise money just to enter a meet. I understand we don't have to go to this one, but if it is a State Series requirement that will be problematic for many.

I was thinking t-shirts, jackets, other apparel


Question? Is this the planned protocol for the State meet or State Series in general also?

I would guess the FHSAA will work with the City of Tallahassee in developing or following a given protocol. I'm sure the effectiveness oo lack of effectiveness of this protocol will yield changes / improvements for the State meet

Agree that is probably what will happen

Question? If it is who pays for that?

I don't have an answer for that, but I would not be surprised if FHSAA charged a small fee to all State meet participants to pay for or help off-set testing costs.

Agree that is probably what will happen, but should it and why only at the state level

Question? Why only the state series and not all season, no set regulations all year but possibly now for what reason?

The State series is the only tournament governed by the FHSAA during the season. The FHSAA does not govern preseason and in-season meets. Those meets are run by host schools / meet directors / county school boards and it is up to them to come up with their own safety protocols.

To an extent this is true. Though everyone must follow FHSAA guidelines, no clubs mixed in, only eligible athletes, or you lose the ability to compete in the State Series and face financially penalties for breaking their rules at "meets they don't apparently govern."
Also if they Govern the entire State Series, that means every Cross Country Student athlete will have to be tested for Districts, Regional ( for a smaller number ) and again at the State Meet. So now each school is going to be expected to pay for 3 weeks of testing per athlete? My point is if not at each meet along the road of the State Series why at the State Meet? if it safety is the concern why not hav


I probably should have used the word "Manage" or "Host" instead of "govern." The state meet is the only meet the FHSAA hosts.


Question? If someone has a fever does it mean they are Covid Positive?

No

*****THEN WHY TAKE TEMPERATURES****

Because a high temperature (absent of anything relating to vigorous activity) is indicative of the body fighting a virus/infection and since we are in the mist of a COVID 19 pandemic, it is smart to have the person learn of their high temperature and have a medical expert distinguish between whether it is nothing, the onset of a flu, or COVID 19. Why? because 2 out of 3 of those can kill you or someone you know if transmitted.

Question? If someone doesn't have a fever does it mean they are Covid Negative?

No

*****THEN WHY TAKE TEMPERATURES****

Maybe the person's temperature is slowly rising and by the time you check it, it finally hits 100.4 degrees F. Also, If I am told to check temperatures of everyone who shows up, then that is what I'm going to do. Temperature or not. symptoms or not. Everyone gets checked. I would guess that the majority of people will not have a temperature, but I might find one that does have a temperature. Temperatures are taken to catch the very few that have them. Why does the TSA check everyone before they board a plane? I'm not carrying any weapons or contraband. Neither are the majority of passengers. But for some reason, EVERYONE must comply.

Question? If there is money to spend on testing why use it on Healthy student athletes that are in schools daily isn't that a waste of money and tests?

We don't know they are healthy until the results of the test reveal it. Just because they are asymptomatic does not mean they are "healthy." You could still run 15:20 / 17:30 5K and have COVID.....making you "unhealthy", but fit.

Actually that is the definition of Healthy, until symptoms present you are Healthy and far less likely to transmit (if you are asymptomatic and positive) according to every study done by the CDC and WHO. If they are allowed to attend school daily why the need to make the meet stricter in an outdoor space)

I disagree. You can't be considered healthy if you are in a disease-state. Type 2 diabetes, osteoporosis, and hypertension are all asymptomatic diseases. A person with any of these is considered unhealthy. By definition, you are unhealthy if you have a virus or disease. According to the following article, you are wrong about people being less likely to transmit if you are asymptomatic and positive. In an article titled "'We don't actually have that answer yet': WHO clarifies comments on asymptomatic spread of Covid-19" Published on June 9, 2020, the author Andrew Joseph cited:

"The WHO created confusion yesterday when it reported that asymptomatic patients rarely spread the disease," an email from the Harvard Global Health Institute said Tuesday. "All of the best evidence suggests that people without symptoms can and do readily spread SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19. In fact, some evidence suggests that people may be most infectious in the days before they become symptomatic -- that is, in the presymptomatic phase when they feel well, have no symptoms, but may be shedding substantial amounts of virus."


Question? Knowing the answer to most of these questions already why are you wasting time and money both yours and ours?

Safety

If you think this makes us any safer than a basic mask precaution... I ask if you are having your team tested regularly as well as teams you compete against weekly tested, if not, then again why should we do it this time around.
( not meaning Pre-state as they can make their rules, but the eventuality of the State Series )

I am no longer coaching, so I do not have a team to COVID test regularly. If I were coaching, I do not think I would be testing the athletes regularly unless the means were provided for by my school. Why should you do it this time around? As you know, you don't have to compete. So, you don't have to do it. But, if you want to compete, then you have to comply with whatever the meet management requires. It sounds cold and harsh, but that's the hand we are dealt. Play it the best you can.


If someone is sitting on some PPE money in tallahassee and decide to use it to get "beds and heads tax" as well as snipe the testing money out of the PPE for student athletes not in Tallahassee, then that is an egregious use of how the funds were most likely intended to be spent ( which is most likely on testing sick people that can't afford it )

I agree, but that would be speculation and I highly doubt that would be the case.

Miles of Smiles

Sincerely,

Coach Ray


While all this might be a pain in the butt, jumping through whatever hoops at whatever costs for the opportunity to allow these kids and coaches to partake in the sport they are passionate about in order to have a season is far better than not having a season.

What about the cost to the people that actually need to be tested? FHSAA gave us a season with no rules at all, none not one rule was made regarding Covid other that the adjustment of the Start date...from my perspective things are getting better "currently" so why tighten up even more when FHSAA created a season with no mandates.


There are several testing sites that are performing tests for free for the public. Home Depot on Capital Circle in Leon County is one of those sites. I would venture to guess there are many counties that also have free testing. I am sure there are some that do not. Bottom line, they can be found.

FHSAA provided no safety guidelines regarding COVID...I would think this happened because there is no authority on the matter greater than the NIH or CDC and every county/school board has rule of how to enforce the CDC recommendations. i.e., what would FHSAA add that is not already covered? Also, too much variance between each county/school for FHSAA to provide blanket COVID rules that work for everyone.

FHSAA is probably tightening up because they are responsible for managing the State meet. It's the possibility of the L-word" Litigation. They want to cross all their "t's" and dot all their "i's"
09/28/2020 8:13:14 PM
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Update: [url=https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/tallahassee-hosting-fhsaa-cross-country-championship-in-jeopardy-due-to-leon-county-e2-80-99s-testing-requirements/ar-BB19vWWY]https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/tallahassee-hosting-fhsaa-cross-country-championship-in-jeopardy-due-to-leon-county-e2-80-99s-testing-requirements/ar-BB19vWWY[/url]

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